Saturday, June 10, 2006

Having cake/eating it.

36 comments:

MJ said...

oh, well that means i havent got any excuses either.. better get typing.....

patroclus said...

>>The reason Alan Moore, Grant Morrison and Mark Millar are so bleedin' good is that they draw on a ridiculously eclectic range of sources, from pirate comics, to magickal traditions, to pop music and so on. Whereas we're now getting a new crop of comics writers whose main influences are... Alan Moore, Grant Morrison and Mark Millar. And it doesn't work as well.<<

See, if Baudrillard had written like that, instead of using fancy words like e.g. 'precession of simulacra', more people would be aware of how they're being sold short by the 'culture industry'.

montigue said...

good morning
and how was the party?

Terri said...

Ugh, I wish I was clever enough to come out with something like Patroclus said!

By "the more Moffaty" in reference to Dr Who I imagine we are talking of the seriously talented and wonderful Mr Stephen?! He is (apartly from being disturbingly attractive) an absolute genius! And he got them to let him jump a horse through a mirror ...

I hope that this means we are going to be seeing some wonderful new telly penned by yer goodself, sir!
And yes - how was the party?

Rachel said...

Please don't attmept to write the english Buffy, i mean thats already been done, and look what it tunred out like "Hex" urgh urgh urgh. But if you do, and its actually good, then i shall also worship you as a God, as long as you don't mind sharing a shrine with Joss and Ms Pile. But who wouldn't!

Hoping the party was rocking!

Much Love x x x

Anonymous said...

I may have to steal some of your argument as my A level Communication Studies exam on Monday is about good culture vs bad culture. Hehe thanks!

patroclus said...

I hope you're going to be citing Steven Johnson, Anonymous...

James Moran said...

Hex wasn't the British version of Buffy, it was a lame-assed attempt at a British version of Buffy by people that clearly thought they had seen Buffy when they had actually seen Charmed. A particularly bad episode of Charmed. Or possibly Mutant X.

Unless I'm ever in a position to get some work off them, in which case: I LOVED it! It was like Buffy, but British! And better!

LynS said...

Hex never stood a chance with being built up as the British Buffy because if you make a statement like that it had better be one helluva show which Hex really wasn't. Now if it had been introduced as 'a new British show which likes to think its the british Buffy but isnt really', you dont watch it with as many expectations and aren't as dissapointed when it turns out to be a bit 'not very good'.
Now did I hear you say Veronica Mars, James? The new series of that is the only thing for me thats softened the blow of GW finishing. And yes, I hope the party was a good 'un.

leonie said...

at the party, did you check stuart's toenails? were they painted?

i'm suffering from severe gw withdrawal today, for some reason.
*gaaaaaaaah*

Pashmina said...

Co-incidentally, I was having a conversation this afternoon with a posho TV producer who has box sets of Veronica Mars and Battlestar Galactica et al on his shelves (and to whom I'd just delivered the complete series of Life on Mars) about how much better telly is than publishing.

That was before we sat down to watch tonight's rocking episode of Doctor Who, of course.

james henry said...

I heart Veronica Mars. Particularly the episode where she went to an Eighties party, dressed as Eighties Madonna, looking foxier than yer actual Madonna ever managed.

Pash, your producer chum has great taste. He should probably think about employing me at some point.

The party was fabulous, and I was amazing. And I think Stuart did paint his toenails, yes, but I may have to get him him to confirm that.

LynS said...

Have you seen the first ep of series 2 James? The ending was great, well not great for them obviously. And my 5% lesbian agrees that she is a foxy lady.

skeadugenga said...

Would someone please just write something which requires a modicum of intelligence and imagination to follow? It would stand out like a beacon in the current terrestrial television schedules and might reduce my Green Wing withdrawal symptoms. Then again, if all the producers and commissioners are "rah rah poshos", it won't be commissioned, they were segregated into two colleges at my university and lets say their entrance requirements weren't strenuous, provided they understood the questions "did your Dad go here" and "do you play rugby"?

jellybean said...

I rather liked Hex, it was quite amusing. I suppose the whole Buffy comparison came about because Hex was marketed as a British Buffy. I wouldn't know about the Buffy thing because I haven't seen it, nor Charmed or Mutant X or whatever.

Anyway, it's good to know that not all TV execs in the UK are posho people.
I'm from Australia and I'm not entirely sure if TV execs here are all about the alma mater and stuff; but I am sure they can be completely clueless sometimes.

Anonymous said...

i heart logan echolls v. much

Elfgirl said...

What channel is Veronica Mars on? I want to see it but I only have a Freeview box which is mainly a load of crap. Shopping channels and 57 extra ITV's.

james henry said...

Not sure it's on a terrestrial channel, to be honest. I bought the DVD set, which was the correct decision. It's ace.

I can't even get Freeview down here.

LynS said...

VM is on Living TV, but i would reccomend getting it on dvd too, it's definately worth it. Itwas about £17 on amazon when i got it.

cello said...

By the time I get to these fascinating topics you've always moved on, James. I'd have got here earlier but I have to water a lage garden by watering can every evening which cuts down my fun time.

Anyway, as someone who believes that Family Fortunes is one of the pinnacles of western Art I totally agree that people should experience culture from all angles and at all levels. However, my experience of Tv producers is much more that they are desperate to appear demotic and 'down with the kids' and they are terrified of 'high art'. When's the last time you saw any Moliere on telly?

I find it utterly patronising to hide behind excuses of 'accessibility' or 'relevance' to keep great, challenging but oh-so-rewarding culture away from ordinary people. I was a working class girl once and if broadcasters had had that attitude when I was young I would be considerably poorer for it now.

ellie said...

here's a tip for those with the GW withdrawal pangs.
Step 1)Get one rubber glove,
2)write 'the healing touch' on it in black marker pen,
3)draw smiley faces on some squares of plastic,
4)attach sellotape,
5)run round house shouting "oooo yeah!" in incredibly loud voice attaching afformentioned smiley faces to various domestic objects (ironing board, nescafe jar, pet cat etc).
6)Explain yourself to bewildered and hungover housemate.

This works on the GW cravings for up to 20minutes.
If that fails try Gin.

Marsha Klein said...

Well said, Cello. As far as I'm aware, much of what is now regarded as "high" art and culture was the populist entertainment of it's day. Personally, I have little patience with either extreme of this debate - I'm as irritated by those people who smile with patronising incomprehension whenever you mention a current popular TV show, as I am by those who insist that opera is a lot of fat, sweaty men and women, shrieking in Italian.

skeadugenga said...

"much of what is now regarded as "high" art and culture was the populist entertainment of it's day"

Exactly. But I can't see people appreciating "Eastenders" and "Big Brother" in 400 years time. Have audiences become less sophisticated, or is it a case of the supply creates the market?

Anyway, theres a good article in todays Independent media section covering the same ground if anyone is interested.

Ellie said...

"Have audiences become less sophisticated, or is it a case of the supply creates the market?"

Not at all. It's simply that the supply is so huge that with the gems (insert own favourite here) you are bound to get some rubbish. Big brother has only been around for 7 years. Thats nothing, it could be a fad like poodle perms and those terrifying Furbi things. Something to get nostalgic about in years to come but that won't live on as a cultural representation of the early 21st century.
I hope.
We'll just have to learn to be more discerning and search for the entertainment we personaly deem worthwhile and culturally sound.

Elfgirl said...

Oh god, I hate that healing touch thing. Especially after my mum thought it was hilarious to wander round singing, "I'm in pain, I'm in pain, I'm pain." I don't know about her but I certainly was.

ellie said...

It's surprisingly theraputic [sp?], honestly.
Had lots of fun chasing the cat.
I didn't like the "I'm in pain, I'm in pain" bit either though.
Loved the oooooooooooooooooh yeah.
Possibly the whole thing might wear a bit thin if flatmate (not the bewildered one) wasn't a GW nut.

cello said...

I'm sure there were plenty of ancient Greek plays which featured women with artificially enhanced breasts, people with gender issues and people with Tourette's. But they just didn't stand the test of time.

Marsha, I'll be up for the TV Festival again this August so we must try and meet up. You can email me on my hotmail account if you go to my profile.

ellie said...

Maybe not the Greek Tragedy plays! but having studied Classics I can reliably inform that the Roman Comedies (held with equal esteem by todays scholars) were over-flowing with fake breasts, smut, gender issues, more smut, oh so funny comedy names (think Life of Brian and you won't be far wrong), panto style nonsense, oooh and a bit dollop of smut. Not really the intellectual and cultural peak of their day.

a lot more fun than the greeks though.

skeadugenga said...

Um, being pedantic, Aristophanes was Greek and about as fun, vulgar and satirical as it gets - Lysistrata?

Anonymous said...

If you want Roman smut Catullus is your man.

ellie said...

"Um, being pedantic, Aristophanes was Greek and about as fun, vulgar and satirical as it gets"

Fair point, but I did say tragedies.
wish I'd studied Aristophanes though!

cello said...

Aristophanes also had a beard -allegedly. As did Chaucer, Chekhov and Andy Hamilton amongst other hirsute comedy greats. But not Wycherley, Sheridan, Wilde, Stoppard or Ayckbourn.

ellie said...

Ah! were any of them ginger beards?

Anonymous said...

Write something more original not pale copies of american shows or is that what you now realise you have to do to appeal to the producers.

james henry said...

Seriously? Well in fact, in order to appeal to producers you sometimes have to pretend you are going to create 'the british Buffy' or the 'new Lost' or whatever - it's certainly what a lot of them want to hear - and bear in mind they need to persuade the people above them to dish out startlingly large sums of money on your behalf, so the more familar and non-risky the project sounds, the better the chance of it getting made.

What you have to do then of course is try and come up with something different and original and fresh and interesting and noble and fine and pretty.

I've certainly never said I wanted to write 'a british buffy' or whatever, but those programmes have certainly raised the bar, and in terms of characterisation, plotting and humour, I'd be foolish not to be influenced by them.

realdoc said...

I for one James would like to see some more integration of 'high' and 'low' culture on telly. It is very difficult I'm sure to develop a piece that works on lots of different levels but I think GW did that as did Buffy as did Austen for that matter.
I think some of the chatrooms have encouraged younger GW fans to read and watch more challanging material and I think that's a fine thing to be responsible for.